An Interview with C. S. Tang, Ba Gua Zhang Instructor

CS Tang learnt Ba Gua Zhang from Ho Ho Choi, a student of Gao Yi Sheng. The famous Wu Meng Xia was also a student of Gao. In June 1996, Dan Miller, editor of Pa Kua Chang Journal and a student of Pak Bo Nam, interviewed CS Tang to discover what Ho had told him of Gao and Wu and their relationship, and to learn more about CS Tang’s own long journey through the world of the martial arts.

When did you begin studying martial arts?

When I was a boy. I learnt Shaolin 'Yi Jin Jing' (Change Tendon Scripture) from my father. In 1964, when I was studying Form III secondary school, I began my long march to Kung Fu.

What was the first martial art that you studied?

Yang Style Taiji Quan, from a neighbour, Mr Ngai Wah. He soon introduced me to his senior classmate, Mr Chan Yuet Sun, a herbalist, who taught me Six Combination Eight Methods, Yi Quan and Ba Duan Jin (Eight Section Brocade). Their teacher was Master Leung Chi Pang, a very famous Cantonese who learnt Chinese Martial Arts in Shanghai before World War II. He’d learnt Eagle Claw Fist from Chan Chi Ching, Tai Chi from Tin Siu Lun, Six Combination Eight Methods from Ng Yit Fai and Yi Quan from Doctor Yau Pang Hai, a senior student of the founder, Wang Hsang Chai. Ultimately, I studied Ba Gua Zhang with Master Ho Ho Choi.

And you’re still very involved with martial arts and Ba Gua now?

Yes, I teach Ba Gua, Yeung and Chen Taiji and Pak Mei (The White brow). My styles are Ba Gua from Ho Ho Choy, Chen Taiji from Fung Chi Kuen, and Pak Mei and Dragon Form Mor Chiu from Sifu Chow Fook.

I’ve held various offices in different martial arts bodies: as assistant secretary of the Hong Kong Yi Quan Association, a senior referee of the Hong Kong Wu Shu Union, a member of the Hong Kong Chin Woo Association, and a Director of the Pa Kua Physical Training and Health Association. And until 1999 I was Secretary General of the Hong Kong Chinese Martial Arts Association. I am also a referee, coach and tutor of internal, external Martial Arts and Wu Shu, as well as being a level III coach recognized by the Hong Kong Coaching Committee. In 1990, 1991 and 1992 I demonstrated Ba Gua Zhang and Ba Gua Sword at the Hong Kong Open WuShu competition and won excellent and first level prizes.My hobbies include Chinese seal engraving, calligraphy and painting.

How did you first become interested in Ba Gua?

In Hong Kong at that time very few people studied Ba Gua. They knew of it but it was considered a very mysterious martial art. I first encountered it in articles from an old magazine published in the 1950's "Novel of Chivalry": which contained Ho Ho Choi's demonstration and photos, some articles by Ng Po Cheung's (a student of Sun Lu Tang), Pang Chiu Kong's "Essentials of Ba Zhang" and Chiang Jung Chiao's "Transcript of Ba Gua"

How did you meet your Ba Gua teacher?

My teacher, Mr Chan, emigrated to Portland, Oregon, but I was still eager to learn martial arts, and, being a young man, I felt that a hard, fighting style like Shaolin would develop me more physically, than an internal martial art. At the time, I was working as a night shift cashier at the Hyatt Hotel, so one day, in the very early morning after work, I took the small cross harbour motor boat over to the Hong Kong side, and walked to Hong Kong Botanical Garden at the middle level of the Peak.

In the 1960's most of masters taught there and it was there that I learnt Southern Mantis. I liked this style. It’s simple, straightforward, powerful and useful. I met other teenagers interested in the martial arts, and, although they studied in different schools, we still got together and practised on Sundays at the Botanical Gardens. We were happy to share our knowledge.

As it happened, some of these other teenagers were learning Ba Gua from Master Ho. I saw them training by themselves and doing two-man set sparring and I said to myself, “I must learn Ba Gua.”

So, one night, rather suddenly, and out of curiosity, I went to learn Ba Gua from Master Ho. I knew the address quite well, but I had never been there. It was in Wanchai, just fifteen minutes walk from my home.

I had to walk up to the top floor of an old four-storey building. There was no light. It was completely dark. There seemed to be nobody there. I stayed on the roof, silent, surrounded by tall buildings. Then, in the dim light coming from those buildings, I saw a man on the other side of the roof. He was watering flowers, but he soon saw me, and climbed to this side of the building. He asked me why I was there. I told him, then we sat down. This was Ho Ho Choi.

Our interview wasn’t long. I remember he asked me “Why do you want to learn Ba Gua?” and all I could answer was “Because I’m interested.” Two other things I remember. He warned me not to try to teach, because you can’t make a living teaching martial arts, and he told me to call him 'lo see' (“teacher”, just as the Japanese say 'se say'), and not to call him “Sifu”. In northern China, where he came from, they called their master “Losi”. They called the driver and the cook “Sifu”.

He then taught me how to walk the circle and how to do the single change palm. I was so happy that first night. I had learnt the famous single change palm already!

Where did you practise? Did your teacher have a school?

We practised there on the rooftop all through the following years - until 1975 when the building was knocked down. The building belonged to Mr Lam Bor, one of Ho's students, who also had a furniture shop downstairs. He let Ho have the space rent-free.

We used to speak of Mr Ho’s school being in three stages. The first stage - when he had only a few students - began in 1952, when he began to practice in the Botanical Garden, and then (from 1956) taught on a senior student's roof in the Central district. In those days, most martial arts masters taught on roofs, partly because roofs provided enough space, but most importantly because on a rooftop they could teach in secret.

The second stage of Ho’s school began when he moved it to the roof in Wanchai. The school was properly registered in the police registrar, and Ho trained most of his students there. He only taught at night. He was always strong and energetic. He used to act as a living sand bag and let students practise locking and pushing on him. On April 10, 1973, we formed the "Pa-Kua Physical Training and Health Association Ltd".

The period after 1975 was the third and last stage. Ho moved to the third floor of a nearby building. There was a grand opening and the school was opened to the public. Students would come in throughout the day and Ho would teach the whole time. Most of his students were rich.

Ho maintained this school for eight years, until he retired. After that, he’d occasionally teach some students on a hill at the back of his home district, or in the lift yard on the same floor as his home.

How many students were in the classes when you were studying?

Ten to twenty students came each night. There were around fifty active members.

How were the classes organized?

Students came freely, as they wanted, without a definite time constraint. Classes normally ran from 7:30 pm until 11:30pm. There would be no class if it rained since training took place out in an open area, but many of us still came in the hope that the rain would stop or else we’d sit together and listen to master's stories.

What are some of the most important fundamental Ba Gua principles your teacher emphasized in his teaching?

He emphasized the twenty four essentials and that these should apply to all action. He also emphasized walking the circle, push hands and two person set sparring, and Five Elements energy. This last is an important factor in the success of your attack

Was traditional philosophy or traditional medicine taught by your teacher in conjunction with the Ba Gua training?

Yes. He used to say that if you practise Ba Gua you should understand the Yi Ching. So when we rested he’d teach us the relationship and the theories of changes. As for traditional medicine, he is also a Chinese bone setter and he liked herbs, so he’d always talked about how he found plants in the mountains and how he used herbs in his practice.

How many years did you study with your teacher?

I used to do form training and practice five nights a week and studied weapons on Saturday evenings. I did that nonstop for eight years. But I was very curious, so from then I started going to another class each night - some other style as well as studying with Master Ho. I studied Northern Shaolin, Chin Woo forms, Tan Tui and Fong Style Southern Mantis.

Who were some of your teacher's best students?

Well, maybe we should say 'distinguished', since there were so many students and they came and left at different stages. In the first stage there were Lan Lok, Wong Tung Chuen, Yum Wing and Wong Chi Ling. In the second stage there were Ho Yuk Chuen, Ho Chan Chung, Lui Yue Lam, Ng Po Chuen, Tang Cheong Shing, Tsui Kwok Leung, Woo Sim Sum, Chan Wing Woo, Wai Fu, Wong Cheung Kun, Tsui Woon Kwong, Lee Po, Yu Chung Chiu, Tsang Kee, and Fung Sum Yuen. In the third stage there were Tsui Bui, Wu Wai Ming, Ko Man Yuen, Issa R. Sadiq, and Tsoi Lung Sang.

What was it that attracted you to the study of Ba Gua?

Many things. The stories. Ba Gua has so many good stories. Then the philosophy is linked with Chinese culture and I find that interesting. It’s also a very complete system, from its fundamental to the top level. I also very much enjoyed Ba Gua set sparring and push hand, and then there’s the applications - they’re very simple and practical, but the theories behind them are deep.

What was the first thing your teacher taught you?

Walking the circle. He first demonstrated the guarding posture and then walked around the circle. He asked me to follow once. Then, he demonstrated how to change to other side. He said, this is the single change and he held my hands and led me to change.

Ho said that on his first day Master Gao taught him in exactly the same way, using a stick to draw a circle in some sandy ground, demonstrating, then leading him in the single change.

What was the learning progression in your teacher's Ba Gua?

Ho’s way of teaching was very similar to Gao’s. (See Appendix A for an outline)

How did your teacher teach you the Ba Gua fighting applications?

He taught each student independently and separately. There was no group study or team practising of the same forms at the same time.

At the second stage, after you’re familiar with the pre-heaven and post- heaven palms, it’s time to learn the applications.

CS Tang provided the following summary of how he learnt the applications.

How to attack

Ho taught by himself. He never employed an assistant. He would hold your wrist and then perform the attack form on you. And then he’d ask you to do the same, attacking him. He used his own body to accept your attack, for two reasons - so that you could feel the strength, and so that he could adjust your push and judge your correctness.

We had a long straight line on the floor, so Master Ho acted on you first along the line, then we acted back on Master Ho back along the line and Master Ho would silently accept your push.

A senior student had hung a sand bag for us to push and practise the five element energies (not for punching), but the actual feel of a body is of the utmost important. Master Ho would ask you to grasp his hand and showed how easily he could unlock by correctly keeping to the twenty-four essences.

How to discharge

Ho would teach how to vanish or discharge a strong push attack by either changing direction using the waist or by absorbing or “swallowing” the energy by withdrawing at the waist.

The link circle: How to attack by using the same form of your enemy after you have discharged his attack.

After you know how to attack effectively and efficiency and discharge safely, its time to learn how to counter attack. The short form of discharge takes place when the attack has reached your guarding area and your opponent’s action is two third completed. You then discharge immediately, using the same attack form that your enemy had just used. This was wonderful because it was something that we had heard of but had never actually seen. It’s a practice unique to Ba Gua.

The Change (Variation)

The master would show you how to apply a form you had just learn (i.e., one of the sixty-four forms) to attack your enemy when he is holding a guarding position, from six different directions. The directions are front, back, left, right, top and bottom. These changes coincide with the change theories of the Yi Ching. (64 x 6 = 384). Once again, this was something that you often heard discussed as a theory but never saw. But in training with Master Ho we actually practised the changes every lesson as a set series.

There is a story about Ho, in which he meets a monk and receives the books of 'Heart Transmit of Top Theories'. Can you tell us about that?

Yes, I call that “Ho Ho Choi's Adventure” In 1969, Ho took some students to Lantau Island to search for herbs and he met a young monk there who said he’s learnt about herbs from a Taoist. In April 1971, we came back again and met the young monk in a temple. Just at that time the number eight typhoon signal was hoisted and, though we rushed to the pier, we were only in time to see the last boat leaving. It was windy and rainy and we had no shelter so we had to sleep in a temple by the beach.

On our next visit, we stayed in the monk's temple and that night we were invited into the room of the principal of temple. He was lying on a bed, smoking opium. He talked about the theories of the Yi Ching and Ba Gua Zhang.

Two months later, the young monk brought Ho two books the Heart Transmit of Top Theories and a reference book. He impressed on Ho that these books should be kept secretly and set out five limitations for passing the book to an outsider. Ho copied the book by his own handwriting and afterwards began to practise Internal Qi Kung.

Did your teacher talk much about Gao Yi Sheng? If so, what kind of things did he say, what kind of stories did he tell?

He always talked about Gao. He’d call him 'Lo Gao', meaning “Old Gao”. This is a normal way in North China to speak of a close friend. They met in Tianjin in1938. Ho had gone there as a salesman and got married there to a woman from a very rich family. At the time that Ho came to learn from him, Gao was living in a stone house beyond the entrance of a local the park. This house belongs to a park guardsman, Mr Wong, who introduced Ho to Gao.

On the first day of teaching, Gao told Ho that he had learnt from an old Taoist with a long beard that reached down to his chest, longer than Gao’s own beard and that he had had to swear to teach only complete sets. One other thing he told him was that in Ba Gua eachof the eight palms had eight changes, and these sixty-four changes had six directions, making a total of 384 palms.

After years of practice, Ho finished most of the forms and techniques. Gao then told him that Ba Gua also had twelve animal forms, but they were not the same as in Hsin Yi. He added that there were there were also eight small animals in the post heaven set and eight big animals in the pre heaven. Ho started to learn these. Because he was small, he felt that tiger form was difficult, but he was interested in the monkey form.

Then Gao’s life took an unfortunate turn. He got into a fight with a Taiji teacher in the park. He used 'Stretch palm' (Taam), striking the Taiji teacher’s stomach. The teacher was hurt and was rushed away in a taxi. He died three days later of a burst bladder. A group of the teacher’s friends then came after Gao's son for revenge and it required Wu Meng Xia and other classmates to drive them off. In order to avoid the police, Gao had to retreat to Wu Ching village, where he lived in the back yard of a herb clinic belonging to a Mr Honin. Gao never returned to the city.

Ho continued to study with Gao, coming to see him at the clinic and staying overnight, but in 1949, Ho decided to leave Tianjin and return to southern China to avoid the communist revolution. He came to say good bye to Gao, and even then, at their last farewell dinner, Gao kept on teaching him. Using a chopstick, Gao showed Ho how the 64 palms could be performed with a long cudgel. Finally, in 1951, Gao passed away.

Many of the things I remember that Master Ho related to us of Gao were just isolated facts, such as that, in his youth, Gao had been a hawker, and that Gao’s leg had once been broken by a mule cart, and - perhaps most important - that Gao kept a bundle of manuscripts under his pillow. These manuscripts were the source of many different interesting stories.

Do you know what kinds of manuscripts they were?

They related to the historical background of the Gao style and were the basis to the claim that the style has its origins in 'Guang Hua' Mountain. According to this account, it was there that the founder, Bi Cheng Xia, taught Song Yi Ren and Ying Wen Tien, and subsequently the famous Dong Hai Chuan. The inner door students kept a secret scripture - a “history and essence” poem which tells the story of why Dong left the mountain and how he promised not to tell others who he had learnt from.

These types of poems were an important tradition in ancient martial arts societies because they were a way for indoor students of the same school to identify themselves to each other as a direct and indoor students. And while I’m talking about this lineage, you might be interested to know that Ying Wen Tien, who I just mentioned - who later became a monk - was the teacher of Han Mu Hsia, who later taught Wu Meng Xia

Anyway, these were the scriptures that Gao kept under his pillow, a book written by Bi Cheng Xia and Dong Hai Chuan.

What else did Ho say about Gao?

Ho also spoke about Gao’s flexibility as a teacher. This is shown in Gao’s “compartmented herb drawers” theory. This refers to how a herbalist takes herbs from different drawers and combines them into a prescription. In the same way, you can memorize the standard forms of the ten pre-heaven and the sixty-four post-heaven palms and subsequently mix them at your leisure. To make another comparison, it’s similar to a buffet dinner. There are many different dishes (palms). You select various dishes and put them on your plate. They’re what you like, and together they make up a series form.

And Gao would also say that you should teach students individually, with different techniques, in the same way that a doctor uses different medicines and treatments according to the different responses and situations of the patients.

Gao woul d also say that deciding on class fees was like renting a mule cart, that is, he’d charge different rates according to the different backgrounds of the students.

Did your teacher ever talk about any of his other classmates that he studied with when he was learning from Gao Yi Sheng?

He always talked about his classmates. He mentioned Yau Fung Pui, who was a classmate of Wu Meng Xia in Han Mu Hsia's class and provided the way for Ho to visit Gao's village and continue his weapon studies. Ho was the only one and last student taught there.

He mentioned Hubei Zhang, who was strong in Chin Na (seizing and locking). He would practise unlocking with him. He mentioned a young Taoist was skilful in the sword as he’d learnt from the general Li King Lam. He and Ho would always practise fencing together. And he also mentioned Li Yuen Zhang, Pau Chum, and On Jai Hai.

Did Gao ever establish a line of succession?

Yes, Gao appointed succession branches for his direct indoor students. 'Jit Chung' for Wu Meng Xia, 'Yit Chung' for Zhang Jun Feng and 'Tao Chung' for Ho Ho Choy.

Did your teacher ever talk about Wu Meng Xia? If so, what did he say?

Apart from the story I mentioned, involving the death of the Taiji teacher, Wu was a private student, so Ho never met him in the public park. In 1958, Wu published the book Eighty-One Postures of Taiji Quan and an Explanation of the Secret Nine Scriptures. Ho saw it and wrote a letter to the publisher and got Wu's address. Wu was happy to answer all Ho's queries.

Ho said Wu's book contained many Ba Gua theories, rather than Tai Chi. Zhang Jun Feng (one of Gao’s direct indoor students and head of the Yit Chung succession branch) was furious about the book. Zhang, who had learnt Hao style Taiji from Wu, said it’s not Taiji, it’s Ba Gua. So he bought all Wu's books in Taiwan and burnt them. Mrs Zhang laughed and said that was foolish, since the publisher would think that the sales of the book were good and plan a second edition.

The meeting of Gao and Wu

Gao learnt Ba Gua at 26, he met the Taoist Zung at 46, and studied free of charge for five years. The Taoist lived with him. When Gao arrived in Tianjin he didn’t know anyone. A headmaster, Mr Kwan, met Gao and invited him to stay at his home. Mr Kwan, knowing that Gao knew martial arts, quickly phoned to his friend, Wu. Wu came immediately by car. He saw Gao was a dusty country bumpkin and did not think he woud have anything special. Still, he said, 'My old friend, what skills do you have?' Gao said, 'Let’s try'.

Wu stepped back and used a full force Hsing Yi Chop Quan to attack Gao. Gao did not retreat, but stepped forward and used open palm, set aside and counter attack. Wu was thrown through to the next room, with his legs on top of his head, hitting the wall. But he was not hurt. He stood up, not knowing what had happened.

He said, 'Old man, why use so much force?'

Gao said, 'It wasn’t my fault. It was because you used so much force.'

Wu said, 'Can we try again?'

Gao said, 'Sure!'

Again, Wu rushed in and again he was thrown against the wall. Picking himself up , he came forward, knelt down, and asked Gao to be his teacher. So Gao always told his students that his first “knelt student” was Wu. By “knelt student” I mean that there was a ceremony of respect at which the student kneels and is taken on by the teacher. Wu's brother was a rich businessman and also learnt from Gao. Wu didn't need to work, and he supported Gao and bought him a house in the village.

Wu Meng Xia's later age

After World War II, Wu returned from Shanghai to Tianjin, where he held the post of Director of The China Wu Shu Association. After Liberation, he took on the roles of chief referee and doctor. He passed away on January 6, 1979, aged 74.

Did you ever get to see any of the letters that Wu Meng Xia wrote to your teacher? If so, can you talk about their contents?

All of Gao’s correspondence with Wu was kept in a paper file. Ho had published some in an article in a newspaper, which was later published in Taiwan in an unauthorized book. I brought the book from Taiwan, and showed it to Ho. He was so angry that he threw the book on the ground, annoyed, 'How dare they publish this, the thieves!'

The contents of the letters mentioned the history of Gao and Wu, the complete 108 system and rhymes, the three Basins, the Ten Great single change methods (the Yen Heavenly Stems), the Four Forms of Standing, the Twenty-Four Essentials and the Eight Circuits of Tangle Palm.

Wu hated the commercialization of martial arts knowledge. He firmly stated that our school had no direct relationship with Dong's succession and the Ching style. He insisted we came from the 'Guang Hua Mountain' school, a style taught in the province of ……..(??)

You visited Zhang Jun Feng's in Taiwan in the early seventies. What differences and similarities did you find between your teacher's Ba Gua and Zhang’s Ba Gua?

Yes, I worked in a travel agency and I had access to a quarter fare, so one day, May 7, 1973, without any preparation or planning I visited Taiwan. At around six o'clock on my second morning in Taipei, I went to the Taipei botanic gardens. I saw many different Chinese martial arts that we didn't see in Hong Kong. At 8:30 in the morning, I took a taxi to Zhang's studio. I knocked on the door and Mrs Zhang opened and let me in. Zhang was sitting on a chair. Mrs Zhang said that he had a problem with his leg. He stayed in the chair until I left. When I said I came from Ho Ho Choy of Hong Kong, Mrs Zhang was very surprised and let me sit down in front of Zhang. Zhang was very eager to enquire about Master Ho.

Zhang had a Shangtong accent, so his Mandarin was difficult to understand. Mrs Zhang asked me whether we had the five elements step, whether we had sixty-four straight palms, and so on, then she demonstrated most of the forms, including static standing, five elements walking and the "Ten Heavenly Stems" exercise set. I demonstrated my style’s linking form. She was very curious about that because she had never seen it before.

As to similarities and differences, Zhang’s style used more strength and the applications were more explicit in the forms. It was also all in single form, with no linking routines. But both styles have the pre- and post-heaven in similar formats.

After the meeting, Zhang gave me a hanging diagram of all sixty-four palms, and two photos: one of his family, and one of himself posing with the long "moon teeth spade" (a kind of halberd with a sickle-shaped knife on one end.)

What did Zhang Jun Feng look like, and what did you talk about?

He always sat with his back straight, like the Hsing Yi master Kwok Yeun Sum who taught Wang Hsuen Chai. The first time you saw him, you immediately knew that he was a Master. His eyes would open very wide like an eagle’s, and his palms were large and powerful. At one point, while explaining an application, he held my right hand and our arms made contact and formed an 'X'. When he grasped my wrist, it felt as strong as an eagle claw and I could scarcely escape.

We talked about a number of things, but I especially remember four things that he mentioned. He said he had never met with Ho Ho Choy in Tianjin. He told me “Tell your master that I was the boss of a famous fruit distributor Ho Kun Chow, he must have heard that.” He asked me if my teacher had told me that the essential thing in Ba Gua, is the Cross - that is, when your arm meets that of an opponent to form a cross-shape - and he mentioned the story in which Master Gao fought and caused the death of the Taiji teacher.

I also asked Zhang which palm in the 64 he thought the most useful and effective. He said Open (Koi), Hide (Chong) and Elude (Sim).

After I returned Hong Kong, I received two rhyme manuscripts from Zhang - the Wu Chi Win Yuen Rhyme and the Five Word Truth Scripture Rhyme. He let me know that he kept these manuscripts secretly and didn’t easily pass them on to students. I kept in contact with him, and Zhang subsequently answered some of my questions concerning Ba Gua theories and the twelve animal forms.

The following year, I engraved a stone seal and sent it to him. He replied that he was in hospital, but that he liked the seal very much, and he provided some further explanations of the rhymes. He died soon after.

I went back to Taipei in 1983, and visited Zhang's home again. When I got there, I knocked on the door, but nobody answered. Then a lady came along, looking like she was returning from the market. It was Mrs Zhang. I told her who I was. She was so surprised. She said, “Are you really CS?” We sat down and talked. I had brought along a photocopy of Zhang's book which a friend of mine had got in a sports library in Tokyo. I asked whether there were any remaining copies. She said that when Zhang died, they burnt some of his manuscripts in the ceremony, including his Dim Muk Book, Chai Mui Stick and Ba Gua Qi Kuen. But she said she would have a look and asked me to come back the following day.

When I came back, there were several students waiting there. Mrs. Zhang said there were no more manuscripts left, except a manuscript of Hsing Yi. She asked me if I practised that and gave it to me as a souvenir.

What differences and similarities did you find between your teacher's Ba Gua and what Tim Cartmell showed you during our visit to Hong Kong?

I have since met some students of Zhang's. Tim's Ba Gua is quite similar except Zhang's earlier stage students practise in a stronger, rather than a relaxed way.

According to what I have been told, Zhang taught two entirely different forms, but with the same sixty-four names, in two different stages. His first stage teaching was very similar to Ho's style, while his later stages are entirely a copy of Wu Meng Xia's techniques.

When Liu Shu Hang (a student of Liu Fung Chai, who studied with Gao) visited you in Hong Kong, did you compare your Ba Gua systems? If so, what similarities and differences did you note?

Well, the names and the movements of the sixty-four and the eight palms are similar. The major difference would be that Liu’s attack posture kept the weight on the rear leg instead of using a front bow step. It was surprising to see Ba Gua attacking in such a similar way to Hsing Yi.

By coincidence, at that time, a student of Zhang's school, Stephen Luk, had just flown in from Taipei, so I invited him to dinner with Liu It was a gathering of Gao's family. We three compared the forms and agreed there were many similarities.

What would you say is the main difference between your style of Ba Gua and the other styles you have seen? What makes it unique?

Most other schools practise in a series form. Gao's school concentrates on separate palms.

What can you tell us about the background of your style of Ba Gua?

Well, as I said, Gao’s manuscripts tell how the style originated in Guang Hua Mountain and the founder was Bi Cheng Xia. Systematically, and philosophically, the system is well organised and linked closely with the Yi Ching. It is in two clear, detailed sections, a theoretical section and a technical section, and then of course there are the applications. (An outline of the system can be found in the appendices)

By the way, in order to prove the theories of our school, I investigated and learnt different schools of Ba Gua. I studied Sun Lu Tong's style, Yin style and Fu style. I liked the guarding stand and fighting concept of theYin style. I liked the Dragon Form Ba Gua of the Fu Style.

Students of the Ba Gua would be interested to know that the Pao Quan (cannon fist) of the Fu Zhen Song is the same as the Pao Quan that is taught in Gong Bao Zhao's Ba Gua in Taiwan and in Yin's school of Lo Han Quan in Beijing. These similarities are strong evidence that they all derived from Yin Fook.

What do you think are the most important aspects, or principles of Ba Gua that a new student should strive to understand?

1. Attend to your balance. You can do this through continuously walking the circle in the guarding posture. Lower your centre of gravity, and take quick, large steps.

2. Remember the basics. Practise single forms, and bear in mind the twenty-four essentials.

3. Ba Gua is different from normal Taiji. In Ba Gua you need you to expend energy. Don’t soften too much. The arms and body should looks like an expanded ball. The turning motion should be like a wheel.

4. Ba Gua is about angles - the guarding posture to protect the eight angles, attacking your opponent from sixty-four angles. So don’t face your opponent chest to chest. Keep yourself sideways and on an angle to minimise your attacking surface.

5. A good guarding posture will keep you safe, but you will be defeated if you maintain an unchanging position. So don’t stay on the defensive. You have to attack to win, and use Ba Gua stepping to change directions and angle to get to your enemy’s weakness.

What do you think beginning Ba Gua students should spend the most time practising?

Walking the circle with full concentration. But they should also make sure they extend their arms and hands and be aware of their elbows. And they should do more single form exercises.

What is the best advice you could give to a beginning Ba Gua student?

In order to complete your knowledge and be really inside Ba Gua, learn some Yi Ching. It’s interesting, and it contains the basic concepts of Ba Gua. It isn’t just superstition.

What is the nuclear central theory of Yi Ching?

Change. Ba Gua is all about change. You meet different forms of attack, from different directions. You have to assess what is coming attitude and act appropriately. Your strategies have to change to adapt to each situation. It’s a bit like you learn in an MBA - 'Strategic Management' - there is no one strategy that applies to all conditions. Circumstances are changing daily. You have to use your knowledge to analyse, adjust to and match with how things change. Speed and power are not the main factors in an attack, your strategies are the main factors and the main tools. You have to understand change.

Is one school or style better than another?

No one style can be said to be suitable for everybody. It isn’t like some special medicine that can cure everything. A certain style will suit a certain person, so you have to judge it for yourself - and when you have tried it out, you’ll know whether that style will fit your height, size, body weight, temperament, and character. This is why Dong Hai Chuan taught different techniques to different students according to their learning background and size.

So, is Ba Gua just for fighting?

Ba Gua isn’t just a sport or simply an exercise, its an art, a special Martial Art. It’s a mental system - you have to think, be involved, solve problems, taste the culture. The philosophy of Ba Gua is deep. Holding in static posture, you hear the bird sing, the bell ring. You learn to get in touch with nature. You keep your breath stable, relaxed and get rid of daily pressure.

And your spirit, how you do the forms, is important. Your pre-heaven palms can be like a swimming fish, then suddenly turn like a eagle or slide down like a snake. You can enjoy the form like it’s dancing, or you can push seriously when you practise the post heaven and your temper is bad. Then you feel all your worries are gone.

Some memories of Ho Ho Choi's special character

Ho Ho Choi never asked a student what he’d learnt before. Once you paid, he taught, but he hated student who had learnt Taiji before because they always just stand there and practise without energy, and they soften their hands so that others can enter their boundary easily.

He’d swear and hit students on their hands or head when they were slow to respond or didn’t understand quickly or follow his demonstration immediately.

He never remembered what he’d taught the day before.

He welcomed questions because he liked to show that he could answer them easily.

He liked to unlock from Chin Na to demonstrate the application of pre-heaven methods.

He liked to talk about herbs and about the relationship of the Yi Ching to Ba Gua Zhang.

He hated when students taught outside without telling him.

He had toget rid of at least of three students.

Ho Ho Choi's chronology: (He Ko Cai)

1911 born on July 20, 1911 of the Chinese Calendar, in a village of Guang Dong province, China. Coincidentally, his birthday and the anniversary of the death of Bruce Lee are the same.

1928 18, learns Hung Kar Southern Shaolin.

1936 26, comes to Tianjin

1938 learns Ba Gua Zhang from Gao Yi Sheng

1942 continues to study Ba Gua weapons in Gao's village

1944 returns to his home village

1950 comes to Hong Kong

1952 meets Li Hsing-He of the Si style

1956 starts teaching Ba Gua in Central

1971 meets a monk and receives the books of 'Heart Transmit of Top Theories'.

1995 November 2, passes away at home peacefully, without disease.